stock 1600cc rebuild, upgrades, detailing?

this thread is meant to discuss on the rebuilding of a stock 1600cc engine, something that is very common in malaysia.

(edit: another similar stock rebuild topic)

most of the time, assuming our engine is still rebuildable, our mechanic of choice would strip everything, clean, new bearings, oversize bearings, new pistons or new rings, new exhaust valves, gaskets etc.

what about some bolt on upgrades or other minor improvements?

it may or may not work, not necessary, but let's talk about them here for the sake of discussing.

personally i would of course want a big bore 94mm and big stroke, performance cam, big heads, but let's keep those on a different thread. we concentrate on a stock 1600cc here.

things i can think off are

1. engine block inspection, bearing saddles, lifter bores
2. full balancing
3. drill and tap casing for full flow oiling
4. oil sump
5. Hoover oil mod
6. swivel feet adjusters
7. flywheel lightening
8. mild cylinder head work

any info, pics, are welcomed.

1.engine block inspection, bearing saddles, lifter bores

This is a must, as well as checking saddles for straight "truness", if it's out, an align bore is required, together with oversized bearings. Too much boring however, will mean the trust area becomes smaller and smaller, leading to a shorter running life on the rebuild engine.

2. Balancing
Personally I feel this is a plus, you can get away without balancing (the engines stock can be as much as 5g out), but with balancing comes a smoother running and thus longer life.

The problem though is that the stock crankshaft 1600s come with do not have counterweights, thus making it impossible to balance anything (you can match piston weight statically, but that's not quite the same). Only solution is to get counterweighted cranks. There are 2 ways to make these, either a new one is casted (casting produces a weaker crank, but for stock 1600 applications they should be fine) or weld weights onto the original cranks, this results in a stronger crank then casting (since the original crank is actually forged).

I'd go ahead and balance parts seperate, and then balance them as a whole.

3. drill and tap casing for full flow oiling

A bonus, the oil filter will again improve life.

4. oil sump
Probably not required, unless you're thinking of doing some serious cornering.

5. Hoover oil mod
Not sure wad u talking about. If you're talking about the Hoover bit, which was part of the doghouse design, it's mandatory you install that piece for better cooling.

If you're talking about the modification of the rocker shafts etc. for better valve train lubrication, that's probably extra and not required for a stockish 1600.

6. swivel feet adjusters
Again not much gained here with stock 1600s, a valve lash cap might be a good idea though.

7. flywheel lightening
Personal preference probably, although a light flywheel will make the engine respond better, it makes shifting a little harder, although some people claim a heavier flywheel improves mileage, I serious doubt that validity, since the engine is still the prime mover, the flywheel just stores energy, not produce more from nowhere.

8. mild cylinder head work
Unless you're planning to cam up, headwork will probably be a waste, since the $$$ you pay for headwork could probably be better spent elsewhere (such as getting a better exhaust system etc.)

Changing cams to get more power isn't free though, you'd have to ensure your engine can rev high enough to reach the power band dictated by your new cam, as well as ensure the headwork can flow the required amount of air. All these means you'd probably be better off getting a mildish cam, and upping the displacement.

Bluebug74 has started the 1600 cc Engine Rebuild. Why have to start this one and
say this is for Stock 1600 cc and gain say that bigger performance Engine should
in another Thread ? Is this not a repeatetion of the 1600cc Stock Engine Rebuild
or 1600cc up to 94 mm Cylinder ?
Which is which now ? :angry:

Sort of. I think the thread order was the other way around ;)

I may merge them or change titles but lets see what direction they go first.

Ok, thanks B)

You can balance a non counter weighted stock crank, Even counterweighted crank will never be fully balanced as the counter weight is only a % of the recipricating weight, normally 60-70 %, By installing light weight rods and pistons, You increase this %
So either way, you will still have imbalance within the engine when is running with the rods and pistons installed, counter weighted or non counter weighted, just that a counter weighted engine will be alot closer to being in balance, Even though on the balancer it was well within spec.

Boring the big end of the crank will help with internal engine balance, as it will increase the counterweight %

You can balance a non counter weighted stock crank, Even counterweighted crank will never be fully balanced as the counter weight is only a % of the recipricating weight, normally 60-70 %, By installing light weight rods and pistons, You increase this %
So either way, you will still have imbalance within the engine when is running with the rods and pistons installed, counter weighted or non counter weighted, just that a counter weighted engine will be alot closer to being in balance, Even though on the balancer it was well within spec.

Boring the big end of the crank will help with internal engine balance, as it will increase the counterweight %

i sent my counterweight for balancing last week along with my fully lightened flywheel...

they removed 17grams of unbalanced from a new counterweight...

You are right that you can balance a non-C/W crank, however #2 engine bearing can still be pounded into an egg shape. Crank flex is still present in a balanced non-C/W setup.

For the purpose of longevity, I'd recommend a counter weighted crank. The twisting forces set up because of a non counter weighted crank cannot be removed by balancing in this case. While this will most likely not be a problem for your bearings, it's the reason why you have such a low redline for stock cranks, you risk breaking the crank into 2 if you stay @ a high enough RPM.

Antak, if u read my posting, i'm just asking for a list of parts needed to rebuild a stock 1600 engine frm zero.

Anyways, doesn't matter.



Cheers!!

Then its more appropriate for the Moderator to close your previous Topic you started earlier, since it is similar or almost similar to this one.
Your earlier Topic reads : 1600cc Engine build up. (Although on the content,
you add, There is a list of.......Thanks

i think better to keep this on detailed discussion, mods, blueprints, - pic pic picss.

we can use the other by BB74 to list out the parts required, types and quality of parts etc - again, pics would benefit all.

Where can we get balancing done in Malaysia? I found a place called NS Performance.

http://www.powerzone.com.my/services.html

Balancing costs about RM800 and they can do almost any type of engine. Any comments?

Just for the record, THIS topic is 5 days older than the other (came first) and is specifically intended to encourage upgrades as mentioned in the title.

The other topic is intended to keep things to a stock buildup. Nice thing is it gets to the point and is easy to use as a ref. It will be stickied due to the simplicity/clean result.

If needed any topics can be merged but I do not see the need to do so here. I will edit the first post for this to be clear why not.

Another topic:
http://mostlymyvw.18.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=1377

(dont have time to read through that now)

i did mine in jb..costed me around 550 for crank and flywheel...they did it in lesser than 5 hours...

they used laser to shave off the unbalance weight...

Bulls**t these guys...they do not know anything about ACVW engines especially the ACVW aluminium cylinder heads. I sent my 1600 Kombi cylinder heads for 3 angled valve job and for porting & polishing plus valve guide replacement. But they screwed my heads. :angry:

1. In the process of replacing the valve guide they broke a piece of the stem and claimed that it was like that previously. Something they knew can be done until I told them.

2. In the process of clamping the head one of the fins was cracked again they claimed it was like that when I sent it to them. I spent RM30 for aluminium welding to fix the crack elsewhere.

3. Their 3 angled valve job is con job really to say the least - My mechanic (Richard)checked and said it was not really a 3 angled cut - 3 angled valve job for ACVW heads has some cutting degrees they have to follow (remember reading it in John Maher Racing's book) and I thought all 3 angled cuts are the same. But I thought these clowns know what they are doing...my mistake.

4. Polishing was alright - perhaps thats the only thing they know well.

I am running these heads currently but with much faith that the valve guide does not pull out of its socket. Its more than a year and so far so good as things are still intact. BTW after some arguments they charged me RM1000 for this 'semua pun boleh' job. Lesson learnt - not to send to any bugger who claim they can do any engine. Well, they know nuts about 40+ year old ACVW technology.

Power wise: there is certainly a lot of difference from a stock 1600 head moreover these are kombi heads (bigger valves) - pretty responsive..boleh la


Cheers...

Bulls**t these guys...they do not know anything about ACVW engines especially the ACVW aluminium cylinder heads. I sent my 1600 Kombi cylinder heads for 3 angled valve job and for porting & polishing plus valve guide replacement. But they screwed my heads. :angry:

1. In the process of replacing the valve guide they broke a piece of the stem and claimed that it was like that previously. Something they knew can be done until I told them.

2. In the process of clamping the head one of the fins was cracked again they claimed it was like that when I sent it to them. I spent RM30 for aluminium welding to fix the crack elsewhere.

3. Their 3 angled valve job is con job really to say the least - My mechanic (Richard)checked and said it was not really a 3 angled cut - 3 angled valve job for ACVW heads has some cutting degrees they have to follow (remember reading it in John Maher Racing's book) and I thought all 3 angled cuts are the same. But I thought these clowns know what they are doing...my mistake.

4. Polishing was alright - perhaps thats the only thing they know well.

I am running these heads currently but with much faith that the valve guide does not pull out of its socket. Its more than a year and so far so good as things are still intact. BTW after some arguments they charged me RM1000 for this 'semua pun boleh' job. Lesson learnt - not to send to any bugger who claim they can do any engine. Well, they know nuts about 40+ year old ACVW technology.

Power wise: there is certainly a lot of difference from a stock 1600 head moreover these are kombi heads (bigger valves) - pretty responsive..boleh la


Cheers...

Yes, sometimes, I can claim that we know more than them actually, eventhough we
are not doing it for our " bread and butter ".
The proper way to replace Valve Guide is to Drill the old Valve stem and then
using a Proper sized Drift, simply Drift it out using a suitable weight Hammer.
You cannot simply try to press the old Valve stem out by using a press.
It is so fit that you will Crack the Head if you use a press.
Well, Kafer, for RM 1000, I would buy a set of New Head......from Singapore.
Well, thats my personal opinion.
:D